Sunday, November 28, 2010

Unleash your elephantine power by altering your response from one that binds you to one that free you!!! - Dr. Yuvraj Kapadia

I was engaged in this extremely interesting conversation with a group of very close friends, who are the team behind this whole facebook exercise and they had this very interesting observation to share which was to do with their children.

It is so amazing to observe, children nowadays, who speak so very differently about their relationship with the divine. They are so confident that they are projections or extensions of the divine force. They are very sure that they are here to enjoy the best the life has to offer because they are god's children.

It really makes you feel very very fulfilled when you watch that. But it also opens up a different line of thinking which is, if our children can be like this and they are like this not because we have taught them to be like this, but it is just a consciousness they seem to be born with, then what are we looking at?

So if these children in the new age, are born with this awareness that they are friends of god, they are the children of god, or they are extensions and projections of the divine, then what in hell's name happened to us? Where did we lose the plot? Perhaps, it might be interesting to observe that if we go back into the way we have evolved over time. At the start of time, maybe in the golden age of mankind, humans on the earth did have an enormous amount of power. The power to manifest, the power to control the elements of the earth, the power to actually live the reality on earth the way their thoughts made them go through it. The power was all there and it was awesome. Perhaps so awesome, that we knew not the true extent of the magnificence that we were and as a result of that when we found ourselves unable, unable to take responsibility for actually being gods, we just decided that it might just be useful to forget a little bit about what is truth and thus began our descent into a self created barrier of consciousness. An awareness in which we chose to cover ourselves with amnesia forgetting the fact that we have it all because with absolute power comes absolute responsibility. Since we are not willing to handle that it becomes so very convenient to lay out all the blame, on the feet of the lord up there and say, "well this is what you have chosen, I am destined to do it, and so is my karma, is my destiny.", Crap !!!

You chose to forget, you chose that because you did not have to take the responsibility; and today you blame the system. It has nothing to do with the system.

Ironically, since the consciousness of the earth is changing you are now choosing back through your own created dramas, the power deep within you. That is how this whole video series is going on. Why do we need a facebook exercise? We need a facebook exercise simply because we have forgotten the fact that it was all with us in any case and so we need somebody like me who comes in like an idiot, week after week, provoking your amnesia into waking up and remembering the fact you were, you are and you will always be the divine. But we want proof and so how do we get this proof? We get this proof by planning once again to have an environment which will challenge our abilities. Such a fantastic plot! I will tell you if there were Oscars for movie making, for acting, for script writing, each one of us would bag these hands own. We execute this so beautifully because now, we are on an upward scale of consciousness where we are seeking to remember once again that we are the divine in motion. How do we remember this? By proving it! And how do we prove this? By inviting challenging situations in which eventually we discover the power to go beyond our programming. This is the most interesting aspect of the journey.

Once again, ironically, I was having a discussion with my friends and they were talking about what happens with the elephant. It is such a beautiful exercise. For all those of you, who have seen the elephant being trained, the exercise of the elephant being trained is one classical epitome of what happens to human consciousness. For those of you who are not aware of this, perhaps this might be a good time to understand it. So, when elephant is born, it is obviously not aware the sheer amount of power it is going to wield when it grows up and to train the elephant the people who capture it or people who keep it, tie the foot of the elephant with a chain and the elephant tries to break the chain but can't break it. and slowly the mindset of the elephant gets completely converted into a belief that if there is anything binding his foot he is unable to break it. To the extent that when the elephant grows up, probably weighs five tonnes and has the power of god knows what ! can uproot trees, can damage buildings and yet this same elephant, the moment there is even a rope touching the foot of the elephant the mindset of the elephant keeps it absolutely docile and still. That is exactly what happens to us. We choose in our programming, we choose in our parenting, we choose in our religion, we choose in our education, all those chains which will make us the bound elephant and then begins our journey with emotional pain. Because the power is there but the belief says that you are bound and that belief becomes your emotional jack till one fine day you break that mindset and you break that mindset simply by understanding that if you were that elephant who had the chain around your foot what would you love to feel. Ah! I would love to feel free. At the end of the day that is the only thing that the soul is desirous of experiencing. It's the desire to feel free and experience life for whatever it is.

So, the next time you have to change your response remember the response should be the response which frees you. Never binds you. If you can implement that, the massive elephantine power that lies within you is just ready to be unleashed. Enjoy!

Burj Khalifa








Driving


Sunday, November 14, 2010

Rainy Sand Storm





Morning Drive





Playing With The Phone





Candle



Jiddu Krishnamurti Quotes

Famous quotes by Krishnamurti on life love and truth

  1. Truth is a pathless land.
  2. I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect.
    The Dissolution of the Order of the Star. 1929.
  3. In obedience there is always fear, and fear darkens the mind.
  4. I was supremely happy, for I had seen. Nothing could ever be the same. I have drunk at the clear and pure waters and my thirst was appeased. ...I have seen the Light. I have touched compassion which heals all sorrow and suffering; it is not for myself, but for the world. ...Love in all its glory has intoxicated my heart; my heart can never be closed. I have drunk at the fountain of Joy and eternal Beauty. I am God-intoxicated.
  5. Beauty is complete order. But most of us have not that sense of beauty in our lives. We may be great artists, great painters, expert in various things, but in our own daily life, with all the anxieties and miseries, we live, unfortunately, a very disordered life. It is a fact. You may a great scientist, you may be a great expert in a subject, but you have your own problems, struggles, pain, anxieties and the rest of it. We are asking, is it possible to live in complete order within, not impose discipline, control, but to inquire into the nature of this disorder, what are the causes, and to dispel, move away, wash away the cause. Then there is a living order in the universe.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti quotes.
  6. Pain itself destroys pain. Suffering itself frees man from suffering.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  7. Freedom and love go together. Love is not a reaction. If I love you because you love me, that is mere trade, a thing to be bought in the market; it is not love. To love is not to ask anything in return, not even to feel that you are giving something- and it is only such love that can know freedom.
  8. Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms.
  9. The mind has to be empty to see clearly.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  10. When we talk about understanding, surely it takes place only when the mind listens completely - the mind being your heart, your nerves, your ears - when you give your whole attention to it.
  11. When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
  12. You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of the truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to help him organize it."
  13. The flowering of love is meditation.
  14. There is no need to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning.
  15. Only in relationship can you know yourself, not in abstraction and certainly not in isolation. The movement of behavior is the sure guide to yourself. It's the mirror of your consciousness: this mirror will reveal its content, the images, the attachments, the fears, the loneliness, the joys and sorrow. Poverty lies in running away from this, either in its sublimations or its identities.
  16. The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear.
  17. Do not think about yourself, but be aware of the thought, emotion, or action that makes you think of yourself.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  18. Religion is the frozen thought of man out of which they build temples.
  19. If you lose touch with nature you lose touch with humanity. If there's no relationship with nature then you become a killer; then you kill baby seals, whales, dolphins, and man either for gain, for sport, for food, or for knowledge. Then nature is frightened of you, withdrawing its beauty. You may take long walks in the woods or camp in lovely places but you are a killer and so lose their friendship. You probably are not related to anything to your wife or your husband
    J.Krishnamurti, Krishanmurti's Journal 04 April 1975
  20. We all want to be famous people, and the moment we want to be something we are no longer free.
  21. Begin where you are. Read every word, every phrase, every paragraph of the mind, as it operates through thought.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti to Jawaharlal Nehru when the later came to meet him after World War II
  22. The moment you have in your heart this extraordinary thing called love and feel the depth, the delight, the ecstasy of it, you will discover that for you the world is transformed.
  23. Violence is not merely killing another. It is violence when we use a sharp word, when we make a gesture to brush away a person, when we obey because there is fear. So violence isn't merely organized butchery in the name of God, in the name of society or country. Violence is much more subtle, much deeper, and we are inquiring into the very depths of violence.
  24. If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem.
  25. By our pontifical assertions, our superior impatience, and our casual brushing aside of their curiosity, we do not encourage their inquiry, for we are rather apprehensive of what may be asked of us; we do not foster their discontent, for we ourselves have ceased to question.
  26. What is needed, rather than running away or controlling or suppressing or any other resistance, is understanding fear; that means, watch it, learn about it, come directly into contact with it. We are to learn about fear, not how to escape from it.
  27. If you begin to understand what you are without trying to change it, then what you are undergoes a transformation.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  28. The description is not the described; I can describe the mountain, but the description is not the mountain, and if you are caught up in the description, as most people are, then you will never see the mountain
  29. In oneself lies the whole world and if you know how to look and learn, the door is there and the key is in your hand. Nobody on earth can give you either the key or the door to open, except yourself.
  30. The fact is there is nothing that you can trust; and that is a terrible fact, whether you like it or not. Psychologically there is nothing in the world, that you can put your faith, your trust, or your belief in. Neither your gods, nor your science can save you, can bring you psychological certainty; and you have to accept that you can trust in absolutely nothing.
    1962 2nd Public Talk, Bombay
  31. A man who is not afraid is not aggressive, a man who has no sense of fear of any kind is really a free, a peaceful man.
  32. To me, then, true criticism consists in trying to find out the intrinsic worth of the thing itself, and not in attributing a quality to that thing. You attribute a quality to an environment, to an experience, only when you want to derive something from it, when you want to gain or to have power or happiness. Now this destroys true criticism. Your desire is perverted through attributing values, and therefore you cannot see clearly. Instead of trying to see the flower in its original and entire beauty, you look at it through coloured glasses, and therefore you can never see it as it is.
    1933-12-29 1st Public Talk, Adyar, Madras, India
  33. This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies.
  34. Order is virtue. And order isn’t a thing to be cultivated; you can’t say I will be orderly, I will do this and I won’t do that - then you are merely disciplining yourself, becoming more and more rigid, mechanical. Such a mind is totally incapable of coming upon this beauty that has no name, no expression. Order, like virtue, cannot be cultivated-if you cultivate humility you are obviously not humble; you can cultivate vanity, but to cultivate humility is not possible any more than to cultivate love. So order which is virtue cannot be practised. All that one can do is to see this total disorder within and outside oneself-see it! You can see this total disorder instantly and that is the only thing that matters-to see it instantly.
  35. The observer is the observed.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti in As the River Joins The Ocean (1998)
  36. Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay.
  37. For the total development of the human being, solitude as a means of cultivating sensitivity becomes a necessity. One has to know what it means to be alone, what it is to meditate, what it is to die; and the implications of solitude, of meditation, of death, can be known only by seeking them out. These implications cannot be taught, they must be learnt. One can indicate, but learning by what is indicated is not the experiencing of solitude or meditation. To experience what is solitude and what is meditation, one must be in in a state of inquiry; only a mind that is in a state of inquiry is capable of learning. But when inquiry is suppressed by previous knowledge, or by the authority and experience of another, then learning becomes mere imitation, and imitation causes a human being to repeat what is learnt without experiencing it.
    From the Book, Life Ahead by Krishnamurti
  38. Without freedom from the past, there is no freedom at all, because the mind is never new, fresh, innocent.
  39. Sorrow is not in death but in loneliness, and conflict comes when you seek consolation, forgetfullness, explanations, and illusions.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  40. So when you are listening to somebody, completely, attentively, then you are listening not only to the words, but also to the feeling of what is being conveyed, to the whole of it, not part of it.
  41. And the point is, is it possible for the mind to be totally free from suffering and yet not become indifferent, callous, irresponsible, but to have that passion, the intensity, the energy that freedom brings, freedom from suffering.
    3rd Public Talk, San Francisco, 1973
  42. You must understand the whole of life, not just one little part of it. That is why you must read, that is why you must look at the skies, that is why you must sing and dance, and write poems and suffer and understand, for all that is life.
  43. In our relationship with children and young people, we are not dealing with mechanical devices that can be quickly repaired, but with living beings who are impressionable, volatile, sensitive, afraid, affectionate; and to deal with them we have to have great understanding, the strength of patience and love.
  44. All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man.
  45. In the space which thought creates around itself there is no love. This space divides man from man, and in it is all the becoming, the battle of life, the agony and fear. Meditation is the ending of this space, the ending of the me.
  46. The ending of sorrow is the beginning of wisdom. Knowledge is always within the shadow of ignorance. Meditation is freedom from thought and a movement in the ecstasy of truth. Meditation is explosion of intelligence.
  47. If there is no order in your relationship with your wife, with your husband, with your children, with your neighbour - whether that neighbour is near or very far away - forget about meditation...
  48. You are Christians; find out what is true and false in Christianity - and you will then find out what is true. Find out what is true and false in your environment with all its oppressions and cruelties, and then you will find out what is true. Why do you want philosophies?
    1934-03-31-B Talk to Theosophists in New Zealand
  49. Human beings, each one, right through the world, go through great agonies, the more sensitive, the more alert, the more observant, the greater the suffering, the anxiety, the extraordinary sense of insoluble problems.
  50. Your belief in God is merely an escape from your monotonous, stupid and cruel life.
  51. Why do you want to read others' books when there is the book of yourself?
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  52. All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary.
  53. Truth is more in the process than in the result.
    Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living.
  54. From these prejudices there arises conflict, transient joys and suffering. But we are unconscious of this, unconscious that we are slaves to certain forms of tradition, to social and political environment, to false values.
    1933-09-12 4th Public Talk, Frognerseteren, Norway
  55. It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
  56. If you leave the pool you have dug for yourself and go out into the river of life then life has an astonishing way of taking care of you, because then there is no taking care on your part.
  57. A consistent thinker is a thoughtless person, because he conforms to a pattern; he repeats phrases and thinks in a groove.
  58. The end is the beginning of all things, suppressed and hidden, awaiting to be released through the rhythm of pain and pleasure.
  59. So let us decide whether you want a shelter, a safety zone, which will no longer yield conflict, whether you want to escape from the present conflict to enter a condition in which there shall be no conflict; or whether you are unaware, unconscious of this conflict in which you exist. If you are unconscious of the conflict, that is, the battle that is taking place between that self and the environment, if you are unconscious of that battle, then why do you seek further remedies? Remain unconscious.
    1934 3rd Public Talk, Ojai, California
  60. Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem.

Awakening of Intelligence - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Awakening of Intelligence

Longer, Unedited Versions

Saanen 1st Conversation with Swami Venkatesananda 25th July 1969

Swami Venkatesananda: Krishnaji, I come as a humble speaker to a guru, not in the sense of hero worship but in its literal sense, as the remover of darkness of ignorance, which the word guru stands for. 'Gu' stands for the darkness of ignorance and 'ru' stands for the remover, the dispeller. Hence guru is the light that dispels the darkness of ignorance and you are that light for me now. We sit in the tent listening to you, and I cannot help visualizing similar scenes. For instance, Buddha addressing the Bhikshus, or Vasishta instructing Rama in the royal court of Dasaratha. We have a few examples of these gurus in the Upanishads; first there was Varuna, the guru, he is very much like you. He merely prods his disciple with the words 'Tapasa Brahma... Tapo Brahmeti'. What is Brahman? Don't ask me. Tapo Brahman, tapas, austerity or discipline or as you yourself often say, 'Find out'. And the disciple himself discovers the truth, though by stages. Yajnyavalkya and Uddhalaka adopted a more direct approach. Yajnyavalkya instructing his wife Maitreyi, used the neti-neti method. You cannot describe Brahman positively, but when you eliminate al the others, it is there. As you said the other day, love cannot be described, "this is it", but only by eliminating what is not love. Uddhalaka used several analogies to enable his disciples to see the truth and then nailed it with the famous expression Tat-Twam-Asi. Dakshinamurti instructed his disciples by silence and Chinmudra. It is said that the Sanatkumaras went to him for instruction. When I read the descriptions of what Krishnamurti was when he was a young age, I am often reminded of that. These old sages went to him and Dakshinamurti just kept silent and showed the Chinmudra and the disciples looked at him and got enlightened. It is believed that one cannot realize the truth without the help, or whatever you call it, of a guru. Obviously even those people who regularly come to Saanen are greatly helped in their quest. Now, what according to you is the role of a guru, a preceptor or an awakener? Krishnaji: Sir, if you are using the word guru in the classical sense, which is the dispeller of darkness, of ignorance, can another, whatever he be, enlightened or stupid, really help to dispel this darkness in oneself? Suppose 'A' is ignorant and you are his guru - guru in the accepted sense, one who dispels darkness and one who carries the burden for another, one who points out - can such a guru help another? Or rather can the guru dispel the darkness of another? - not theoretically but actually. Can you, if you are the guru of so and so, can you dispel the darkness of another, for another? Knowing that he is unhappy, confused, has not enough brain matter, has not enough love, or sorrow, can you dispel that? Or has he to work tremendously on himself? You may point out, you may say, 'Look, go through that door,' but he has to do the work entirely from the beginning to the end. Therefore, you are not a guru in the accepted sense of that word, if you say that another cannot help. Swamiji: It is just this: the 'if' and 'but'. The door is there. I have to go through. But there is this ignorance of where the door is. You, by pointing out, remove that ignorance. Krishnaji: But I have to walk there. Sir, you are the guru and you point out the door. You have finished your job. Swamiji: So darkness of ignorance is removed. Krishnaji: No, your job is finished and it is now for me to get up, walk, and see what is involved in walking. I have to do all that. Swamiji: That is perfect. Krishnaji: Therefore you do not dispel my darkness. Swamiji: I am sorry. Now I do not know how to get out of this room. I am ignorant of the existence of a door in a certain direction and the guru removes the darkness of that ignorance. And then I take the necessary steps to get out. Krishnaji: Sir, let us be clear. Ignorance is lack of understanding, or the lack of understanding of oneself, not the big self or the little self. The door is the 'me' through which I have to go. It is not outside of 'me'. It is not a factual door as that painted door. It is a door in me through which I have to go. You say, 'Do that.' Swamiji: Exactly. Krishnaji: You, as a guru, have finished. You do not become important. I do not put garlands around your head. I have to do all the work, all the work. You have not dispelled the darkness of ignorance. You have, rather, pointed out to me that, "You are the door through which you yourself have to go." Swamiji: But would you, Krishnaji, accept that that pointing out was necessary? Krishnaji: Yes, of course. I point out, I do that. We all do that. I ask a man on the road, "Will you please tell me which is the way to Saanen", and he tells me; but I do not spend time and devotion and love and say, "My God, you are the greatest of men." That is too childish! Swamiji: Thank you, sir. Closely related to what the guru is, there is the question of what discipline is. The disciple is discipline which you defined as learning. Vedanta classifies the seekers according to their qualifications, or maturity, and prescribes suitable methods of learning. The disciple with the keenest perception is given instruction in silence, or a brief awakening word like Tat-Twam-Asi. He is called Uttamadhikari. The disciple with the mediocre ability is given more elaborate treatment; he is called Madhyamadhikari. The dull-witted is entertained with stories, rituals, etc., hoping for greater maturity; he is called Adhamadhikari. Perhaps you will comment on this? Krishnaji: Yes, the top, the middle and bottom. That implies, sir, that we have to find out what we mean by maturity. Swamiji: May I explain that? You said the other day, "The whole world is burning, you must realize the seriousness of it." And that hit me like a bolt - even to grasp that truth. But there may be millions who just do not bother; they are not interested. Those we shall call the Adhama, the lowest. There are others like the Hippies and so on who play with it, who may be entertained with stories and who say, "We are unhappy," or who tell you, "We know society is a mess, we will take L.S.D.", and so on. And there may be others who respond to that idea, that the world is burning, and that immediately sparks them. We find them everywhere. How does one handle them? Krishnaji: How to handle the people who are utterly immature, those who are partially mature, and those who consider themselves mature? Swamiji: Correct. Krishnaji: To do that, what do we mean by maturity? What do you think is maturity? Does it depend on age, time? Swamiji: No. Krishnaji: So we can remove that. Time, age is not an indication of maturity. Then there is the maturity of the very learned man, the man who is highly, intellectually capable. Swamiji: No he may twist and turn the words. Krishnaji: So we will consider him not mature. Whom would you consider as a mature, ripe man? Swamiji: The man who is able to observe. Krishnaji: Wait. Obviously the man who goes to churches, to temples, to mosques is not; the obvious things are not. So what would one consider a mature man? Not the intellectual, the religious and the emotional, not who plays intellectually and all the rest of it. We should say, if we eliminate all that, maturity consists in being not self-centred - not 'me' first and everybody else second, or my emotions first. So maturity implies the absence of the 'me'. Swamiji: Absence of fragmentation, to use a better word. Krishnaji: The 'me' which creates the fragments. Now, how would you appeal to that man? And to the man who is half one and half, 'me' and 'not me', who plays with both? And the other one who is completely 'me', who enjoys himself? How do you appeal to these three? Swamiji: How do you awaken these three in other words. That is the trouble. Krishnaji: Wait! The man who is completely 'me', there is no awakening in him. He is not interested. He won't even listen to you. He will listen to you if you promise him something, heaven, hell, fear or more profit in the world, more money; but he will do it in order to gain. So the man who wishes to gain, achieve, is immature. Swamiji: Quite right. Krishnaji: Whether Nirvana, Heaven, Moksha, attainment, or enlightenment, he is immature. Now, what will you do with such a man? Swamiji: Tell him stories. Krishnaji: No, why should I tell him stories, befuddle him more by my stories or by your stories? Why not leave him alone? He would not listen. Swamiji: It is cruel. Krishnaji: Cruel on whose part? He won't listen to you. Let us be factual. You come to me. I am the total 'me'. I am not concerned with anything but 'me', and you say "Look, you are making a mess of the world, you are creating such misery for man", and he says, please go away. Put it any way you like; put it in stories, cover it with pills, sweet pills, but he is not going to change the 'me'. If he does, he comes to the middle - the 'me' and the 'not me'. This is called evolution. The man who is the lowest reaches the middle. Swamiji: How? Krishnaji: By knocking. Life forces him, teaches him. There is war, hatred; he is destroyed. Or he goes into a church. The church is a trap to him. It does not enlighten him, it does not say, "For God's sake break through," but it says it will give him what he wants - entertainment, whether Jesus entertainment, or Hindu entertainment, or Buddhist, or Muslim or whatever it is - it will give him entertainment, only in the name of God. So they keep him at the same level, with little modifications, a little bit of polish, better culture, better clothes, eat properly, consider a little bit, not too much, others. That is what is happening. He probably makes up (as you said just now) eighty per cent of the world, more perhaps, ninety per cent. And you have the churches, the temples, the mosques, the shrines and so on. Swamiji: What can you do? Krishnaji: I won't add to it, I won't tell him stories, I won't entertain him; because there are others who are already entertaining him. Swamiji: Thank you. Krishnaji: So why should I join that group? Then there is the middle one, the 'me' and the 'not-me', who does social reforms, a little bit of good here and there, but always the 'me' operating. Socially, politically, religiously, in every way, the 'me' is operating. But a little more quietly, with a little more polish. Now to him you can talk a little bit, say, "Look, a social reform is all right in its place but it leads you nowhere," and so on. You can talk to him. Perhaps he will listen to you. The other one will not listen to you at all. This chap will listen to you, pay a little attention and say, well, this is too serious, this requires too much work, and slips back into his old pattern. We shall talk to him and leave him. What he wants to do is up to him. Now, there is the other one who is getting out of the 'me', who is stepping out of the circle of the 'me'. There, you can talk to him. He will pay attention to you. So one talks to all the three, not distinguishing between those who are mature and those who are not mature. We will talk to all the three categories, the three types, and leave it to them. Swamiji: The one who is not interested, he will walk out. Krishnaji: He will walk out of the tent, he will walk out of the room. That is his affair. He goes to his church, football, entertainment or whatever it is. But the moment you say "you are immature and I will teach you more", he becomes... Swamiji: Boosted up. Krishnaji: The seed of poison is always there. Sir, if the soil is right, the grain will take root. But to say, 'You are mature, and you are not mature', that is totally wrong. Who am I to tell somebody that he is immature? It is for him to find out. Swamiji: But can a fool find out that he is a fool? Krishnaji: If he is a fool he won't even listen to you. You see, sir, we start out with the idea of wanting to help. Swamiji: That is what we are basing our whole discussion upon. Krishnaji: I think that approach is not valid, except in the medical world or in the technological world it is necessary. I may go to the doctor to be cured. Here, psychologically, if I am asleep, I won't listen to you. If I am half awake, I will listen to you according to my vacant state, according to my moods. Therefore, to the one man who says, "I really want to keep awake, keep psychologically awake", to him you can talk. So we talk to all of them. Swamiji: Thank you. That clears up a big misunderstanding. When sitting alone, I reflected over what you had said earlier in the day. I cannot help the spontaneous feeling. "Ah, the Buddha said so", or "Vasishtha said so", though immediately I endeavour to cut through the imagery of the words to find the meaning. You help us find the meaning, though perhaps that is not your intention. So did Vasishtha and the Buddha. People come here as they went to those great ones. Why? What is there in human nature that seeks, that gropes and grasps for a crutch? Again, not to help them may be a cruelty, but to spoon-feed them may be greater cruelty. What does one do? Krishnaji: The question being, why do people need crutches? Swamiji: Yes, and whether to help them or not. Krishnaji: That is it: whether you should give them crutches to lean on. Two questions are involved. Why do people need crutches? And whether you are the person to give them the crutches? Swamiji: Should one or should one not? Krishnaji: Should one or should one not, and whether you are capable of giving them help? Those two questions are involved. Why do people want crutches, why do people want to depend on others, whether it is Jesus, Buddha, or ancient saints, why? Swamiji: First of all, there is something that is seeking. The seeking itself seems to be good. Krishnaji: Is it? Or is it their fear of not achieving something which the saints, the great people, have pointed out? Or the fear of going wrong, of not being happy, of not getting enlightenment, understanding, or whatever you call it? Swamiji: May I quote a beautiful expression from the Bhagvad-gita? Krishna said: four types of people come to me. The one who is in distress; he comes to me for the removal of distress. Then there is the one who is a curious man; he just wants to know what is this God, truth, and whether there is heaven and hell? The third one wants some money. He also comes to God and prays to get more money, let me become a millionaire, a multi millionaire. And the Gyani, the wise man, also comes. All of them are good, because they are all, somehow or the other, seeking God. But of all these, I think the Gyani is the best one. So the seeking may be due to all sorts of reasons. Krishnaji: Yes, sir. There are these two questions. First of all, why do we seek? Then, why does humanity demand crutches? Now, why does one seek, why should one seek at all? Swamiji: Why should one seek? Krishnaji: Why does one seek and why should one seek at all? Swamiji: Why should one seek? Because one finds something missing. Krishnaji: Which means what? I am unhappy and I want happiness. That is a form of seeking. I do not know what enlightenment is. I have read about it in books and it appeals to me and I seek it. Also I seek a better job, because there is more money, more profit, more enjoyment and so on. In all these there is seeking, searching, wanting. I can understand the man wanting a better job, because society is so monstrously arranged, as it is, that makes him seek more money, a better job. But psychologically, inwardly, what am I seeking? And when I do find it, in my search, how do I know that what I find is true? Swamiji: Perhaps the seeking drops. Krishnaji: Wait, sir. How do I know? In my search, how do I know that this is the truth? How do I know? Can I ever say "This is the truth"? Therefore why should I seek it? So what makes me seek? What makes one seek is a much more fundamental question than the search, and saying, "This is the truth." If I say, "This is the truth", I must know it already. If I know it already, it is not truth. It is something dead, past, which tells me that is the truth. A dead thing cannot tell me what is truth. So why do I seek? Because, deeply I am unhappy, deeply I am confused, deeply there is great sorrow in me and I want to find a way out of it. You come along as the guru, as an enlightened man, or as a professor and say, 'Look, this is the way out.' The basic reason for my search is to escape from this agony and I posit that I can escape, and that enlightenment is over there, or in myself. Can I escape from it? I cannot in the sense of avoiding it, resisting it, running away from it; it is there. Wherever I go, it is still there. So what I have to do is to find out in myself why sorrow has come into being, why I am suffering. Then, is that a search? No. When I want to find out why I am suffering, that is not searching. It is not even a quest. It is like going to a doctor and saying I have tummy ache, and he says you have eaten the wrong kind of food. So I will avoid wrong food. If the cause of my misery is in myself not necessarily created by the environment in which I live, then I have to find out how to be free from it for myself. You may, as the guru, point out that that is the door, but as soon as you have pointed it out, your job is over. Then I have to work, then I have to find out what to do, how to live, how to think, how to feel this way of living in which there is no suffering. Swamiji: Then to that extent the helping, the pointing out, is justified. Krishnaji: Not justified, but you do it naturally. Swamiji: Supposing the other man gets stuck somewhere, that as he goes there, in going there he knocks against this table... Krishnaji: He must learn that the table is there. He must learn that when he is going towards the door there is an obstacle in the way. If he is enquiring, he will find out. But if you come along and say, "There is the door, there is the table don't knock against it", you are treating him just like a child leading him to the door. There is no meaning to it. Swamiji: So that much of help, the pointing out, is justified? Krishnaji: Any decent man with a decent heart will say, look, don't go there, there is a precipice. I once met a very well-known guru in India. He came to see me. And it was quite an odd performance he put up. There was a mattress on the floor and we said to him politely, please sit on the mattress. He quietly sat on the mattress, assumed the position of the guru, put his stick in front of him and began to discuss. nd he said: we need gurus because we know better than the layman; why should he go through all the danger alone? We will help him. It was impossible to discuss with him because he had assumed that he knew and everybody else was in ignorance. At the end of ten minutes he left, rather annoyed. Swamiji: That is one of the things for which Krishnaji is famous in India! Next, while you rightly point out the utter futility of blindly accepting formulas and dogmas, you will not ask for their summary rejection. While tradition can be a deadly block, it is perhaps worth understanding it and its origin; else we might destroy one tradition and an equally pernicious one might spring up. Krishnaji: Quite right. Swamiji: Hence may I offer a few traditional beliefs for your scrutiny so that we may discover where and how what you called 'good intentions' veered towards hell - the shell that imprisons us? Each branch of Yoga prescribed its own disciplines in the firm conviction that if one pursued them in the right spirit one would end sorrow. I shall enumerate them for your comments. Karma Yoga: it demanded Dharma, or a virtuous life, which was often extended to include the much abused Varnashrama Dharma. Krishna's dictum 'Swadharme... Bhayavaha', seems to have indicated that if a man voluntarily submitted himself to certain rules of conduct, his mind would be free to observe and learn with the help of certain Bhavanas. Would you comment on this? The concept of Dharma and rules and regulations: 'do this', 'that is right', 'that is wrong....' Krishnaji: Which means really, you lay down what is right conduct. Swamiji: And I voluntarily adopt it. Krishnaji: There is a teacher who lays down what is righteous behaviour, and I come along and voluntarily, to use your word, take to it, accept it. Is there such a thing as voluntary acceptance? And should you lay down what is right conduct, should the teacher lay down what is right conduct, which means he has set the pattern, the mould, the conditioning? You follow the danger of it? He has laid down the conditioning which produces right behaviour, which will lead one to heaven. Swamiji: That is one aspect of it. The other aspect in which I am more interested, is if that is accepted, then the psychological apparatus is free to observe. Krishnaji: I understand. No, sir. Why should I accept it? You are the teacher. You lay down the mode of conduct. How do I know that you are right? You may be wrong. And I won't accept your authority. Because I see the authority of the gurus, the authority of the priest, the authority of the Church, they have all failed. Therefore, with a new teacher laying down a new law, I would say, "For God's sake you are playing the same game; I do not accept it." But if I voluntarily accept it, is there such a thing as voluntary acceptance, free acceptance? Or am I already influenced, because you are a teacher, you are the great one, and you promise me a reward at the end of it, unconsciously or consciously, which leads me to 'voluntarily' accept it? I do not accept it freely. If I am free, I do not accept it at all. I live. I live righteously. Swamiji: So righteousness must come from within? Krishnaji: Obviously, what else, sir? Look at what is going on in the study of behaviour. They say outward circumstances, environment, culture, produce certain types of behaviour. That is, if I live in a communist environment with its domination, with its threats, exposure, going to the concentration camps, all that will make me behave in a certain way; I put on a mask, frightened, and I behave in a certain way. In a society which is more or less free, where there are not so many rules, because nobody believes in rules, where everything is permitted, there I play. Swamiji: Now, which one is more acceptable from the spiritual point of view? Krishnaji: Neither. Because behaviour, virtue, is something which cannot be cultivated by me or by society. I have to find out how to live rightly. Virtue is something which is not an acceptance of patterns, or following a deadly pattern of routine. Goodness is not routine, surely? If I am good because my teacher says I am good, it is meaningless. Therefore there is no such thing as voluntary acceptance of the righteous behaviour which is laid down by a guru, by a teacher. Swamiji: One has to find it. Krishnaji: Therefore I have to begin to enquire. I begin to look, to find out how to live. I can only live when there is no fear. Swamiji: Perhaps I should have explained this. According to Sankara it is meant only for the lower. Krishnaji: What is low and high? The mature and the immature? Sankara or X Y Z says, "Lay down the rule for the low and for the high" and they don't do it. They read the books of Sankara, or some pundit reads it to them, and they say how marvellous it is and go back and live their own life. This is an obvious fact. You see it in Italy. They listen to the Pope, and nobody cares either - they listen earnestly for two or three minutes and then go on with their daily life; t does not make any difference. That is why I want to ask, why the so-called Sankaras, Gurus, lay down laws about what is behaviour. Swamiji: Otherwise they think there will be chaos. Krishnaji: There is chaos anyhow. There is terrible chaos. In India they have read Sankara and all the teachers for ten thousand, or five thousand years. Look at them! Swamiji: Perhaps, according to them, the alternative is impossible. Krishnaji: What is the alternative? Confusion? And that is what they are living in. Why not understand the confusion in which they are living instead of studying Sankara? If they understand confusion, they can change it. Swamiji: Perhaps that leads us on to this question of Bhavana where a bit of psychology is involved. Coming to the Sadhana of Karma Yoga, the Bhagavad Gita prescribes among other things a Nimitta Bhavana. Bhavana is undoubtedly Being and Nimitta Bhavana is being an egoless instrument in the hands of God or the Infinite Being. But it is also taken to mean an attitude or a feeling in the hope that it will help a beginner to observe himself and thus the Bhavana will fill his being. Perhaps it is indispensable for the people of little understanding; perhaps it will permanently distract them by self-deception. How shall we make this work? Krishnaji: What is the question you are asking, sir? Swamiji: There is the technique of Bkawana. Krishnaji: That implies a system, a method, by the practice of which, you ultimately reach enlightenment. You practise in order to come to God or whatever it is. The moment you practise a method, what happens? I practise day after day the method laid down by you. What happens to me? Swamiji: There is a famous saying, "As you think so you become". Krishnaji: I think that by the practice of this method I will reach enlightenment. So what do I do? Every day I practise it. I become more and more mechanical. Swamiji: But there is a feeling. Krishnaji: The mechanical routine is going on with the feeling added, "I like it", "I don"t like it", "it is a bore" - you know, there is a battle going on. So anything I practise, any discipline, any practice in the accepted sense of the word makes my mind more and more narrow, limited and dull, and you are promising at the end of it, heaven. So you are saying, become dull to achieve heaven. I say it is like soldiers being trained day after day - drill, drill - till they are nothing but instruments of the commanding officer or sergeant. Give them a little initiative. So I am questioning the whole approach of system and method towards enlightenment. Even in factories a man who merely moves a button or pushes this or that does not produce as much as the man who is free to learn as he goes along. Swamiji: Can you put that into Bhavana? Krishnaji: Why not? Swamiji: So it works? Krishnaji: This is the only way. That is real Bhavana: Learn as you go along. Therefore no method. Therefore keep awake. Learn as you go along, therefore be alert as you go along. If I take a walk and I have a system, a method of walking, that is all I am concerned with: I shall not see the birds, the trees, the marvellous light on the leaf, nothing. And why should I accept the teacher who gives me the method, the mode? He may be as peculiar as I am, and there are teachers who are very odd. So I reject all that. Swamiji: The problem again is that of the beginner. Krishnaji: Who is the beginner? The immature one? Swamiji: Probably. Krishnaji: Therefore you are giving him a toy to play with? Swamiji: Some sort of opening. Krishnaji: Yes a toy and he enjoys that toy. He says, I am practising all day, and his mind remains very small. Swamiji: Perhaps that is your answer to this Bhakti Yoga question too. Again, somehow they wanted these people to break through. Krishnaji: I am not at all sure, sir. Swamiji: I will discuss this Bhakti. Coming to Bhakti Yoga, the Bhakta is encouraged to worship God even in temples and images, feeling the Divine presence within. In quite a number of mantras, it is repeated again and again, "You are the All Pervading... you are the Omnipresent", etc. Krishna asks the devotees to see God in the objects of nature and then as the 'All'. At the same time through japa, or the repetition of mantra with the corresponding awareness of its significance, the devotee is asked to perceive that the divine presence outside is identical with the indwelling presence. Thus the individual realized his oneness with the collective. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with that system? Krishnaji: Oh! Yes, sir. The Communist block does not believe in God at all. They don't believe in that at all. They are selfish, they are frightened, but there is no God, no mantras, etc. Another does not believe in any of that, mantras, japa, repetition but he says, "I want to find out what truth is. I want to find out if there is a God at all. There may be no such thing." And the Gita and all of them assume that there is. They assume there is God. Who are they to tell me there is or there is not, including Krishna or X, Y, Z? I say it may be your own conditioning; you are born in that peculiar climate and with that peculiar tradition, with that peculiar attitude and you just believe in that. And then you lay down rules. But if I reject all authority, including the Communists, including the Western and the Asiatic authorities all authority, then where am I? Then I have to find out, because I am unhappy, I am miserable. Swamiji: But I might be free from conditioning. Krishnaji: That is my business, to be free. Otherwise I cannot learn. If I remain a Hindu for the rest of my life, I am finished. The Catholic remains a Catholic and the Communist is equally dead. But is it possible - that is really the question - to reject all conditioning which accepts authority? Can I really reject all authority and stand alone to find out? And I must be alone. Otherwise, if I am not alone in the deeper sense of that word, I am just repeating what Sankara, Buddha, or X, Y, Z said. What is the point of it, knowing very well that repetition is not the real? So, must not I - mature, or immature, or half mature - must not they all learn to stand alone? It is painful because they say, "My God, how can I stand alone?" - to be without the children, to be without God, to be without the Commissar? There is fear. Swamiji: Do you think that every one can work out this? Krishnaji: Why not, sir? If you cannot, then you are caught in it. Then no amount of Gods, and mantras, and tricks will help you. They may cover it up. They may bottle it up. They may suppress it and put it in the refrigerator. But it is always there. Swamiji: Now there is the other method, that of standing alone: Raja Yoga. The student here is again asked to cultivate certain virtuous qualities which, on the one hand, make of him a good citizen and on the other, remove possible psychological barriers. This Sadhana, which is mainly awareness of thought which includes memory, imagination and sleep, seems to be close to your own teaching. Asana and Pranayama are auxiliaries, perhaps. And even the Dhyana of Yoga is not intended to bring about self-realization, which is admittedly not the end product of a series of actions. Krishna clearly says that Yoga clarifies perception: 'Atma Shuddhaye'. Do you approve of this approach? There is not much of help involved here; even Iswara is only 'Purusha Visheshaha'. It is a sort of a guru, invisible in the indwelling process. Do you approve of this approach: there is this method of sitting in meditation and trying to delve deeper and deeper. Krishnaji: Now wait. One has to go into the question of meditation. Swamiji: And Patanjali defines meditation as, "The absence of all world idea or any extraneous idea." That is the 'Bhakti Sunyam'. Krishnaji: Look, sir, I have not read anything. Now here I am: I know nothing. I only know that I am in sorrow and that I have got a fairly good mind. I have no authority - Sankara, Krishna, Patanjali, nobody - I am absolutely alone. I have got to face my life and I have got to be a good citizen - not according to the Communists, Capitalists, or Socialists. Good citizenship means behaviour, which is not one thing in the office and different at home. First, I want to find out how to be free of this sorrow. Then being free, I shall find out if there is such a thing as God or whatever it is. So how am I to learn to be free of this enormous burden? That is my first question. I can only understand it in relationship with another. I cannot sit by myself and dig into it because I may pervert it; my mind is too silly, prejudiced. So, I have to find out in relationship - with nature, with human beings - what is this fear, this sorrow; in relationship only, because if I sit by myself I can deceive myself very well. But by being awake in relationship, I can spot it immediately. Swamiji: If you are alert. Krishnaji: That is the point. If I am alert, watchful, I shall find out; and that does not take time. Swamiji: But if one is not? Krishnaji: Therefore, the problem is to be awake, to be aware, alert. Is there a method for it? Follow it, sir. If there is a method which will help me to be aware, I shall practise it; but is that awareness? Because in that is involved routine, acceptance of authority, repeating, repeating, repeating, which is gradually making my alertness dull. So I reject that: the practice of alertness. I say I can only understand sorrow in relationship and that understanding comes only through alertness. Therefore, I must be alert. I am alert because my demand is to end sorrow. Therefore I must be alert. If I am hungry, I want food and I go after food. In the same way, I discover the enormous burden of sorrow in me and I discover it through relationship - how I behave with you, how I talk to people. In that process of relationship, this thing is revealed. Swamiji: In that relationship you are alI the time self-aware, if I may put it that way. Krishnaji: Yes I am aware, alert, watching. Swamiji: Is it so easy for an ordinary person? Krishnaji: It is, if the man is serious and says, "I want to find out." The ordinary man, eighty to ninety per cent of them, says, I am not really interested, what are you talking about. Go away, I want to be entertained, by the Gita, by the church, by Jesus, by Buddha. I want to be entertained, football. But the man who is serious, he says, "I shall find out - I want to see if the mind can be free from sorrow." And it is only possible to discover it in relationship. I cannot invent sorrow. In relationship sorrow comes. Swamiji: The sorrow is within. Krishnaji: Naturally, sir, it is a psychological phenomenon. Swamiji: You would not want man to sit and meditate and try to sharpen? Krishnaji: So let us come back to the question of meditation. What is meditation? - not according to what Patanjali and others say because they may be totally mistaken. And I might be mistaken when I say I know how to meditate. So I have to find out, I have to say, "Now what is meditation?" Is meditation sitting quiet, concentrating, controlling thought? Swamiji: Watching, perhaps. Krishnaji: You can watch when you are walking. Swamiji: It is difficult. Krishnaji: You watch while eating, when you are listening to people, when somebody says something that hurts you, flatters you. That means, you have to be alert all the time - when you are exaggerating, when you are telling half-truths. You follow? To watch, you need a very quiet mind. That is meditation. The whole of that is meditation. Swamiji: To me it looks as though Patanjali evolved an exercise for quietening the mind, not on the battlefield of life, but to start it when you are alone and then extend it to relationship. Krishnaji: But if you escape from the battle... Swamiji: For a little while... Krishnaji: If you escape from the battle you have not understood the battle. The battle is you. How can you escape from yourself? You can take a drug, you can pretend that you have escaped, you can repeat mantras, japas and do all kinds of things, but the battle is going on. You say, "Get away quietly from it and then come back to it." That is a fragmentation. We are suggesting: "Look at the battle you are involved in; you are caught in it: you are it." Swamiji: That leads us to the last discipline: you are it. Krishnaji: You are the battle. Swamiji: You are it, you are the battle, you are the fighter, you are away from it, you are everything. That is perhaps what is implied in Gnana Yoga. According to Gnana Yoga, the seeker is asked to equip himself with the four means: Viveka, seeking the real and discarding the false; Vairagya, not seeking pleasure; Shat Satsampath, which meant in effect living a life conducive to the practice of this yoga; and Mumukshutva, a total dedication to the search of Truth. The disciple then approached a guru and his Sadhana consisted of Shravana (hearing), Manana (reflection) and Nisyudhyajna (assimilation), which all of us do here. The guru adopted various means to enlighten the student, which usually implied the realization of the All or the Whole Being. Sankara describes it thus: "The infinite alone is real, the world is unreal. The individual is non-different from the infinite," So there is no fragmentation there. Sankara said that the world is Maya by which he meant that the world-appearance is not the real, which one has to investigate and discover. The Upanishads envisaged the Truth in the following: consciousness is the Infinite. I am the Infinite. Or, I is the Infinite. Thou are That, the self is Infinite. Even these should lead to Cosmic Consciousness, or Realization. Everything is the All, All is Infinite. The Infinite is Infinite. And its active manifestaion in daily life which Krishna describes thus in the Gita: "The yogi is then aware that the action, the doer of the action, the instruments involved, and the object towards which the action is directed, are all one whole and thus fragmentation is overcome." How do you react to this Gnana Yoga method? First there is this Sadhana Chaturdhyaya, for which the disciple prepares himself. Then he goes to the guru and sits and hears the Truth from the guru and reflects over it and assimilates the truth, till it becomes one with him; and the truth is usually said in terms of these formulas. But these formulas that we repeat are supposed to be realized. Has this perhaps some validity? Krishnaji: Sir, if you have read none of these - Patanjali, Sankara, Chan Upanishads, Raja Yoga, Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Gnana Yoga, nothing - what would you do? Swamiji: I shall have to find out. Krishnaji: What would you do? Swamiji: Struggle. Krishnaji: Which you are doing anyhow. What would you do? Where would you start? - knowing nothing about what others have said, including what the Communist leaders have said - Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin. I haven't read a thing, I don't want to. I am here, an ordinary human being. Where am I to begin? I have to work, Karma Yoga, in a garden, as a cook, in a factory, an office, I have to work. And also there are the wife and children: I love, I hate, am a sexual addict, because that is the only escape offered to me in life. Here I am. That is my map of life and I start from here. I cannot start from over there; I start here and I ask myself what it is all about. I know nothing about God. They can invent, pretend: I have a horror of pretending. If I do not know, I do not know. I am not going to quote Sankara, Buddha, or anybody. So I say: this is where I start. Can I bring about order in my life? - order, not invented by me or by them, but order that is virtue. Can I bring it about? And to be virtuous there must be no battle, no conflict in me or outside. Therefore, there must be no aggressiveness, no violence, no hate, no animosity. I start from there. And I find out I am afraid. I must be free of fear. To be conscious of it is to be aware of all this, aware of where I am; from there I will move, I shall work. And then I find out I can be alone - not carry all the burdens of memory, of Sankaras, of Buddhas, Marx, Engels. You follow? I can be alone because I have understood order in my life; and I have understood order because I have denied disorder, because I have learnt about disorder. Disorder means conflict, acceptance of authority, complying, imitation, all that. That is disorder, the social morality is disorder. Out of that I will bring order in myself; not myself as a petty little human being in a backyard, but as a Human Being. Swamiji: How do you explain it? Krishnaji: It is a human being who is going through this hell. Every human being is going through this hell. So if I, as a human being, understand this, I have discovered something which all human beings can discover. Swamiji: But how does one know that one is not deceiving oneself? Krishnaji: Very simple. First, humility: I do not want to achieve anything. Swamiji: I do not know if you have come across people who say, "I am the humblest person in the world." Krishnaji: I know. That is all too silly. Not to desire achievement is not. Swamiji: When one is in it, in the soup, how does one know? Krishnaji: Of course you will know. When your desire says, "I must be like Mr Smith who is the Prime Minister, the General, or the Executive Officer", then there is the beginning of arrogance, pride, achievement. I know when I want to be like the hero, when I want to become like the Buddha, when I want to reach enlightenment, when desire says, "Be something." Desire says in being something there is tremendous pleasure. Swamiji: But have we still tackled the root of the problem in all this? Krishnaji: Of course we have. 'Me' is the root of the problem. Self-centredness is the root of the problem. Swamiji: But what is it? What does it mean? Krishnaji: Self-centredness? I am more important than you, my house, my property, my achievement, 'me' first. Swamiji: But the martyr may say, "I am nothing; I can be shot." Krishnaji: Who? No, they don't. They are silly to be shot. Swamiji: They may say they are completely unselfish, selfless. Krishnaji: No sir, I am not interested in what somebody else says. Swamiji: He may be bluffing himself. Krishnaji: As long as I am quite clear in myself, I am not deceiving myself. I can deceive myself the moment I have a measure. When I compare myself with the man with a Rolls-Royce, or with the Buddha, or with Marx. Comparing myself with somebody is the beginning of illusion. When I do not compare, why should I, I move from there. Swamiji: To be the Self? Krishnaji: Whatever I am; which is: I am ugly, I am full of anger, deception, fear, this and that. I start from there and see if it is at all possible to be free of all this. Without that my thinking about God is like thinking about climbing those hills, which I never will. Swamiji: But even so you said something very interesting the other day: the individual and the collective are one. How does the individual realize that unity with the collective? Krishnaji: But that is a fact. Here I am living in Gstaad; somebody is living in India, he has the same problem, the same anxiety, the same fear, only different expressions but the root of the thing is the same. That is one point. Second, the environment has produced this individuality and the individuality has created the environment. My greed has created this rotten society. My anger, my hatred, the fragmentation of my life has created the nation and all this mess. So I am the world, the world is me. Logically, intellectually, verbally, it is so. Swamiji: But how does one feel it? Krishnaji: That comes only when you change. When you change, you are no longer a national. You do not belong to anything. Swamiji: Mentally I may say I am not a Hindu, or I am not an Indian. Krishnaji: But, sir, that is just a trick. You must feel it in your blood. Swamiji: Please explain what that means. Krishnaji: It means, sir, when you see the danger of nationalism, you are out of it. When you see the danger of fragmentation, you no longer belong to the fragment. We do not see the danger of it. That is all.

Jiddu Krishnamurti in English

Awakening of Intelligence

Longer, Unedited Versions

Saanen 1st Conversation with Swami Venkatesananda 25th July 1969

Rain at the Arabian Ranches





Rainy Day

Bacon



Sunday, November 7, 2010

Saturday, November 6, 2010